The Forum for the production of the highly ambitious fan game, "Banjo-Kazooie: The Crystal Jiggy".


    Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

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    MoOshiCow

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    Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

    Post  MoOshiCow on Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:28 am

    Sorry if I'm throwing questions like there's no tomorrow here, but I've just joined the team, and am not quite aware of what's our current status, so don't mind me.
    As far as I can tell, correct me if I'm wrong, we haven't discussed much on the technology side, so I guess I'll start throwing questions we probably need to decide before moving on.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Programming Language:
    -I assume we're looking along the lines of C++ or C# for the engine. Possibly adding some scripting languages(?) Popular choices, these days, seem to be Lua or Python.

    Engines:
    -Are we going for an existing 3D engine? Or, are we gonna build one from scratch?
    Both choices actually have their advantages & problems.
    -If we are looking at third-party engines, I assume we're going for a free/open source, or relatively cheap engine. Do we need a full-blown game engine, or just a graphics engine, like Ogre3D, and build the game part on top of it?

    Target Platform:
    -What is our target platform? Windows/Linux/Macs/etc???

    Source code
    -Kind of relates to the target platform issue, but are we looking at an open-source project? Or do we want to keep our assets closed (Which means we are probably steering away from the Linux community)?

    Source Control
    -How are we going to maintain our project resources, source code, documents, etc?
    Some sort of version control software would be nice. Subversion seems to be the popular choice these days, but we then need a repository server.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well, I guess that covers the basics, feel free to add more to the discussion.

    -MoOshiCow
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    bonzo

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    Re: Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

    Post  bonzo on Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:48 pm

    Well, I'm pretty sure we're gonna use XNA to distribute it, and make a version for XBOX 360 and windows. I wanted to make it for xbox then sort of "port" it to windows, and of course have it 1080p capable because that's just awesome. 5.1 sound? So that would be C#, but it's only tentative. I have absolutely no idea about the engine, me BKP and Cooki-cooki were supposed to discuss it in February but because of certain conflicts we never got around to it then and to this day, still haven't.

    For source control I was thinking uploading to an FTP server the latest build and then accessing it via a program such as FireFTP. Me and my pal who I have a website with used to use one that he actually owned, I'm not exactly sure how to make one but I'd be happy to if someone had a shitty computer to donate to use as one. Of course, we don't use it anymore because he needs it as a "private family server". I hate that kid.

    And target platform is of course (tentatively) Xbox 360, and windows. I'm not sure if Visual C# can make mac programs... I'm actually positive it wouldn't be.

    Yeah so give me some sort of response to justify me typing all that Wink.
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    MoOshiCow

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    Re: Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

    Post  MoOshiCow on Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:45 pm

    Okay, here's a response.

    I'm not particularly concerned about "developing" with XNA, C#.
    My concern lies in the fact that, when you say we want to "distribute it" via XNA onto XBOX 360...now correct me if i'm wrong, since i've never distributed anything on XNA nor do I have an xbox360 to know how the whole downloading content works...but doesn't that mean we're aiming to "sell" our game using the whole xbox live points system?
    If I understand correctly, we're using another company's IP to create our game content, and therefore not allowed to make profit off of our final product.
    I think these are clearly some issues we need to think of, before blindly saying "we want to make an xbox360 version."

    As for using an FTP server for source control, I would suggest using something a bit more robust than an FTP server to maintain code. For example, when we have multiple programmers working on different parts (or maybe even some overlapping parts) of the code base, and one programmer uploads his version of the code to the server, it's really not quite convenient for the other programmers to download that version and try to merge it with his/her version all manually. Which is why using something like subversion is nice. If we do have access to a server computer, then I suggest we setup an svn server on it, so that we can have our own private svn repository.

    Well, these are all suggestions/opinions, so feel free to disagree/correct me.
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    B-Kpianist
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    Re: Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

    Post  B-Kpianist on Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:12 pm

    Well- the XBLA release would have to be negotiated with Rare. When we get to that stage, we'll discuss it more. However:

    Our plan was to try to convince Rare to let us put the game on XBLA as a free download. MS would still make there money because... well i'd be paying $99 per/year. Razz
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    MoOshiCow

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    Re: Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

    Post  MoOshiCow on Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:39 pm

    Well, as long as you have things under control, and everything is legit there's no problem.
    However, I think the business side of games is always a big mess, and needs to be well thought out even before development.

    Just don't want to see that after months of development, we get a big fat BANNED sticker slapped on our face. I guess, even if the xbox distribution doesn't work out, porting to PC and distributing it as freeware won't be too difficult (or i hope).

    I guess for now, we should concentrate on actually developing the game : p
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    DotMatrix

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    Re: Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

    Post  DotMatrix on Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:44 pm

    XBLA seems a bit far off (and far out...). however, PC distribution shouldn't be an issue with xna. it's not so much different than any other kind of software. we should focus primarily on PC imo, only later(as in after we have several versions out) should we consider anything else.

    An SVN would be a great idea. there's xp-dev.com, which is what i've seen used before on other projects. it's free with 1GB of space, hopefully that would suffice. I've also got my own webspace, but i have limited bandwidth and it's already shared, so that's only a last resort type deal.
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    B-Kpianist
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    Re: Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

    Post  B-Kpianist on Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:51 pm

    MoOshiCow wrote:Well, as long as you have things under control, and everything is legit there's no problem.
    However, I think the business side of games is always a big mess, and needs to be well thought out even before development.

    Just don't want to see that after months of development, we get a big fat BANNED sticker slapped on our face. I guess, even if the xbox distribution doesn't work out, porting to PC and distributing it as freeware won't be too difficult (or i hope).

    I guess for now, we should concentrate on actually developing the game : p

    I already talked Rare about this. Check the announcement board Smile
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    MoOshiCow

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    Re: Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

    Post  MoOshiCow on Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:15 pm

    Well, actually I raised this whole issue, because I read that post,
    and followed the link to the xbox game content usage rules.
    (btw the hyperlink has an extra " on it, so it leads to a broken page..just to let you know)

    # You can’t sell or otherwise earn anything from your Items. We will let you have advertising on the page with the Item on it, but that’s it. That means you can’t sell your Item, post it on a site that requires subscription or other fees, solicit donations for your Item of any kind (even by PayPal), use it to enter a contest or sweepstakes, or post it on a page you use to sell other items (even if those other items have nothing to do with Game Content or Microsoft). This doesn’t restrict you from using your Item for film festivals – that’s not our intention, even if you get a prize for winning. But where someone is trying to promote their commercial venture (even just a commercial website) with a “machinima contest”, they need our permission to do this. If they’ve got our permission you’ll know…

    Also..

    Here’s the magic words from our lawyers: so long as you respect these rules, Microsoft grants you a personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable license to use and display Game Content and to create derivative works based upon Game Content, strictly for noncommercial and personal use. We can revoke this limited use license at any time and for any reason.

    Basically, says "we allow to work with our IP as long as you follow the rules, but that doesn't mean we can't stop your project at anytime." = p

    So, once again, business stuff is always tricky.
    Got to proceed with caution.
    But yes, I agree with DotMatrix, and think developing for the PC for starters is a good approach.
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    bonzo

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    Re: Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

    Post  bonzo on Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:14 pm

    MoOshiCow wrote:Okay, here's a response.

    I'm not particularly concerned about "developing" with XNA, C#.
    My concern lies in the fact that, when you say we want to "distribute it" via XNA onto XBOX 360...now correct me if i'm wrong, since i've never distributed anything on XNA nor do I have an xbox360 to know how the whole downloading content works...but doesn't that mean we're aiming to "sell" our game using the whole xbox live points system?
    If I understand correctly, we're using another company's IP to create our game content, and therefore not allowed to make profit off of our final product.
    I think these are clearly some issues we need to think of, before blindly saying "we want to make an xbox360 version."

    As for using an FTP server for source control, I would suggest using something a bit more robust than an FTP server to maintain code. For example, when we have multiple programmers working on different parts (or maybe even some overlapping parts) of the code base, and one programmer uploads his version of the code to the server, it's really not quite convenient for the other programmers to download that version and try to merge it with his/her version all manually. Which is why using something like subversion is nice. If we do have access to a server computer, then I suggest we setup an svn server on it, so that we can have our own private svn repository.

    Well, these are all suggestions/opinions, so feel free to disagree/correct me.

    The point of it on XBOX is because we could have high quality graphics and audio that EVERYONE can use, not just someone with a high end computer. And we aren't stupid enough that we'd try to sell this... The key word here is accessibility. We want most banjo fans to have access to this game.

    And I don't know shit about source control so sorry for suggesting FTP!

    cooki-cooki
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    Re: Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

    Post  cooki-cooki on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:43 pm

    PC is the way to go. it's easier.

    and we could use the Panda 3d engine as a base and work on some improvements like better support for lightmaps and implement a particle system
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    B-Kpianist
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    Re: Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

    Post  B-Kpianist on Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:04 am

    We're actually gonna use Axiom 3D. I posted a topic on it in this board. If you want more info on it, contact cooliscool

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    Re: Lets Talk about the Tech side of this project~

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